I love what Portland has been doing this year and Camara has been a big part of that. But having dudes like him and DFS on this list without a single one of Bostons top 3 defenders is kind of egregious.
Team stats: they are once again top 5 in Def Rtg without a single players being listed. But the 14th, 16th, and 17th worst defenses are c…
I love what Portland has been doing this year and Camara has been a big part of that. But having dudes like him and DFS on this list without a single one of Bostons top 3 defenders is kind of egregious.
Team stats: they are once again top 5 in Def Rtg without a single players being listed. But the 14th, 16th, and 17th worst defenses are comprised of better defenders? Fine, let’s just take a quick peak at individual stats.
Tatum is top 6 in Def WS among qualified players. Literally 7 of the 15 guys on your list aren’t even top FIFTY in Def WS. And if you watch the tape, you’ll see him regularly guarding 1-5 and top 3 most versatile defender in the league.
As you alluded to in reference to your Lu Dort pick: stats aren’t everything. But they’re also not nothing.
Almost half of these dudes should be on a “most improved defenders” list, not All-Defensive teams.
I should've included Jayson Tatum in my list of honorable mentions this season; I've praised him several times for his willingness to guard centers without bitching, unlike other power forwards.
But I watch more Celtics than any other team (I also write for Celtics Blog), and I just don't think any of those guys have been as good this year as they were last year, particularly Holiday.
DWS is not a great stat, there's a reason I never cite it now that better-developed stats are available. The more modern stats pretty much all agree that the Celtics are a bunch of good to really good defenders without having that one elite guy this year (whereas last year, both Holiday and especially White shone like the sun), and that matches what my eyes tell me, too.
I acknowledge the risk of being attracted to the shiny new defenders. I try very hard to think about those biases so as not to incorporate them (that's why I had to give love to Green despite my personal distaste for his antics), but nobody is perfect. If any Celtics deserves to make a team, it would still be White, FWIW.
I think this is a bit of a trap the Magic fell into this year, too, where if everyone's good, it's harder to tell who is great. (The Thunder are an exception, since their defense has been so unworldly this year). I do my best, but there's plenty of room for disagreement, and I'm sure you're not the only one would make a reasonable claim for a Boston player or two!
I think it’s great overall to spotlight the shiny new defenders, especially since perception tends to lag behind reality by a year or two. And there are so many talented defenders in the league right now that it’s a joy to experience, but also means it’s harder to get eyes on or discuss everyone.
Didn’t know you were also a C’s fan (think that means you’ve done well maintaining objectivity), but I get where you’re coming from.
But I’ve watched almost as many Nuggets and Knicks games as I have Celtics this year, and it’s clear they are a top unit so wanted to show some love :)
You could definitely say the same about the Magic and the Thunder to an extent, except OKC is lapping the West with their defense. Which is why I agree Lu Dort is the real DPOY.
I love what Portland has been doing this year and Camara has been a big part of that. But having dudes like him and DFS on this list without a single one of Bostons top 3 defenders is kind of egregious.
Team stats: they are once again top 5 in Def Rtg without a single players being listed. But the 14th, 16th, and 17th worst defenses are comprised of better defenders? Fine, let’s just take a quick peak at individual stats.
Tatum is top 6 in Def WS among qualified players. Literally 7 of the 15 guys on your list aren’t even top FIFTY in Def WS. And if you watch the tape, you’ll see him regularly guarding 1-5 and top 3 most versatile defender in the league.
As you alluded to in reference to your Lu Dort pick: stats aren’t everything. But they’re also not nothing.
Almost half of these dudes should be on a “most improved defenders” list, not All-Defensive teams.
I hear you. I had Derrick White (2nd) and Jrue Holiday (1st) on my teams last year; nobody is a bigger Holiday fan than me. https://www.basketballpoetry.com/p/three-nba-2023-24-all-defensive-teams
I should've included Jayson Tatum in my list of honorable mentions this season; I've praised him several times for his willingness to guard centers without bitching, unlike other power forwards.
But I watch more Celtics than any other team (I also write for Celtics Blog), and I just don't think any of those guys have been as good this year as they were last year, particularly Holiday.
DWS is not a great stat, there's a reason I never cite it now that better-developed stats are available. The more modern stats pretty much all agree that the Celtics are a bunch of good to really good defenders without having that one elite guy this year (whereas last year, both Holiday and especially White shone like the sun), and that matches what my eyes tell me, too.
I acknowledge the risk of being attracted to the shiny new defenders. I try very hard to think about those biases so as not to incorporate them (that's why I had to give love to Green despite my personal distaste for his antics), but nobody is perfect. If any Celtics deserves to make a team, it would still be White, FWIW.
I think this is a bit of a trap the Magic fell into this year, too, where if everyone's good, it's harder to tell who is great. (The Thunder are an exception, since their defense has been so unworldly this year). I do my best, but there's plenty of room for disagreement, and I'm sure you're not the only one would make a reasonable claim for a Boston player or two!
I think it’s great overall to spotlight the shiny new defenders, especially since perception tends to lag behind reality by a year or two. And there are so many talented defenders in the league right now that it’s a joy to experience, but also means it’s harder to get eyes on or discuss everyone.
Didn’t know you were also a C’s fan (think that means you’ve done well maintaining objectivity), but I get where you’re coming from.
But I’ve watched almost as many Nuggets and Knicks games as I have Celtics this year, and it’s clear they are a top unit so wanted to show some love :)
You could definitely say the same about the Magic and the Thunder to an extent, except OKC is lapping the West with their defense. Which is why I agree Lu Dort is the real DPOY.